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Actor Steve Buscemi first worked with director Alexandre
(Four Rooms) Rockwell on the runaway indie hit, In The
Soup. The two rejoined forces on Rockwell's Somebody to Love,
along with Harvey Keitel and Rosie Perez, due out in May. 
We bought 'em both lunch, stuck Arty Nelson between them with a
tapedeck, and here's how it came out.

I wasn't exactly excited about going to LA.  I get spaced out in
Hollywood and spaced out is a bad state to be in behind the wheel of a
rental car. After a day of meetings with people who I had no idea why I'm
meeting, I need a drink; but the problem is bars in LA close early. This
is when I really begin to miss the Apple. So it was a real kick for me to
sit down with ex-NYC fireman Steve Buscemi for a veggie burger at Red
Cafe. The veggie burger needed a little work to distinguish it from the
bun but Steve's a class act, even with bean sprouts stuck to his Buscemi
lips. Far and away, some of the best performances Steve has done for me
have been when we were shit-faced; he might suddenly jam a plastic doll in
his pants, jump up, and improvise a disco number from Sleazy Night
Fever. Once we were talking over a scene during In The Soup
and we started laughing so hard he inhaled half an egg sandwich and I
couldn't get off the floor to help him 'cause I was laughing so hard. I
finally got it together to slap him on the back and egg flew across the
room; Steve almost died that night, but he would have died laughing. Apart
from the plastic dolls and flying sandwichs, I really respect Mr. Buscemi.
Somehow, he's managed to be involved in the best independent films of the
last decade while supporting himself with studio films. On top of that,
he's been a fireman and a family man; even if his kid, Lucian, calls him a
suphi-hippopotamus, he is none the less...a responsible family man to
boot. What can't this guy do?  Don't say direct films because he's
done it with Trees Lounge, a movie he wrote, which will be out next
fall. When I was a kid I wanted to be a firemen when I grew up. Now I
wouldn't mind being Steve Buscemi.

ROCKWELL: Steve, I always enjoy a good cheeseburger.
BUSCEMI: I want to know why? Is it Swiss or American that does it?
ROCKWELL: I can't believe how you guys can pitch a Steve Buscemi cover for
your magazine. It is going to be the lowest selling cover ever. People are
going to look at this cover and go "AGGGGGH!"
ARTY NELSON: I think you came up with it.
ROCKWELL: Busting Balls with Buscemi.
ARTY: What are you gonna get?
BUSCEMI: I think I'm going to get a turkey burger. I don't know...I think
I'm going out of mind with hunger.
ARTY: How are you guys liking it out here?
ROCKWELL: Whenever I'm here I like it, but I have a mixture of feelings
about LA. I like NYC a lot better because it is not so Hollywoody.
I mean, when I come out here it is a totally Hollywood thing, you know. 
There's more of a mix in New York.
ARTY: The mixed debate?
ROCKWELL: Yeah. But for instance, when I go into DeRoberties to write,
their idea of celebrity is some out-of-date photo of Frank Sinatra that he
signed. Here it just becomes overwhelming, the whole celebrity thing. It
gets kinda boring, all this schmoozing.
ARTY: You know, In the Soup, was really the movie that introduced
Seymour Cassel to me. He was sort of a background guy in some Cassavettes,
but I never really knew who he was.
ROCKWELL: That was the reason Steve did the movie.
BUSCEMI: It's true.
ARTY: Not the strength of the script?
BUSCEMI: Alex didn't cast me in his movie, Sons. He made me
audition for an hour and a half and didn't cast me.
ROCKWELL: And then I met him at DeRoberties and I thought he was the
man. "It's your part," I said. "You have the part, Steve." And I meant
it. But I had an asshole involved in the film. Steve should've played
the part.
BUSCEMI: Alex told me that although it might not work out for
Sons, he really wanted to work with me. I figured I'd never hear
from him again. Then he called me and said he had something he wanted to
write for me and Seymour Cassel. If he hadn't said Seymour Cassel, I....
ROCKWELL: ...would have said, "Fuck you and the horse you rode in on!"
BUSCEMI: He told me he had this script he wanted to write, I figured the
most I'd get out of it was to meet Seymour Cassel. Six months later we're
in production, which is unheard of with a script not even written.
ROCKWELL: A rubber band production. The finances would fall apart and
Steve would go in and go, "That's not fair man!" And I'd be ready to wrap
a bike around some guy's neck. We were actually working with some guy who
said he was going to do the film, he had an office that we were rehearsing
in....
BUSCEMI: He had an office!
ROCKWELL: We'd have Vietnamese strippers sleeping on the couch, waiting
to audition. Amazing auditions. They would sit on his lap...remember
when my couch broke one time when she was dancing on him and the spring
broke? But anyway, the financing fell through three days before shooting. 
We shot that scene with Steve and Jenny on the roof with the test
camera...it was such a small guerrilla thing, we just had a camera and
went up to the roof when it was snowing. Then the financing fell out. I
mean, we had the set built.  I almost killed the guy.
BUSCEMI: We'd rehearsed for three weeks with Seymour, who paid his own
expenses to come to NY...bad.
ROCKWELL: This really sweet guy was the financier. His partner came in
and said he should take his money out because it was a bad thing. So then
we went to Jim Stark and started borrowing money and Steve started
throwing his salary back in and that's how we did it...against the odds. 
We got into Sundance in the 11th hour...such a great thing.

ROCKWELL: Steve, when did you start acting?
BUSCEMI: I did stand-up for two or three years when I first moved to
Manhattan. Then I quit and joined the Fire Department.
ARTY: Benefits?
BUSCEMI: Yeah, lots of benefits. And then I met Mark Boone Junior and
Rockets Redglare. Rockets was doing these cabaret shows. I told Rockets
I was a stand-up and, without even seeing me do anything, he booked me in
his show.
ROCKWELL: That was a great time in NY. Lots of little Cabaret acts.
Instead of just going to discos and getting drunk, people would go to
these shows and then afterwards, dance and drink. Before you did
stand-up, were you acting at all?
BUSCEMI: I was doing the Lee Strasberg class when I was 18. It was all
right, but kinda intimidating. I wasn't really sold on the method.
ROCKWELL: Yeah...I used to study acting too, and they would have me make
giraffe sounds and movements and I would be there, going, "Ahh, ohh,
oohh!" and moving my neck in some weird way and then I'd open my eyes and
see everyone looking at me.
BUSCEMI: I never had Lee Strasberg as a teacher, but I sat in on a
class. He was doing this emotional memory exercise with this actress and
she was sitting in a chair in the middle of the room, describing what she
was feeling, this traumatic thing - which she could not say what it was -
she could only say what she was hearing and smelling. Anytime she would
try to describe other parts of it, Lee would scream, "I don't want to
know! Just tell me what you feel!" By the end of it, she broke down
crying, not because of the feeling but because of the brow beating.
ROCKWELL: Now that'll probably be an emotional memory for her.
BUSCEMI: Yeah, Lee Strasberg making her cry. But I studied with Lee's
son Jon. That was really helpful. Really, I felt my training was the
time I spent with Mark (Boone Junior).
ROCKWELL: Did you feel you were handsome, that you'd get chicks by
acting? What was it? Were you a class clown?
BUSCEMI: Depended on the class. Some I was the clown and some I was
really the quietest kid. Teachers would get all these mixed signals with
one going, "Steve's the best kid, he just sits there," and then another
going, "Steve's a real problem. I don't know what to do with him."
ROCKWELL: How about science class?
BUSCEMI: Science...I was pretty quiet. French class, I was a mess,
totally wild.
ROCKWELL: I would love to have seen you in French class. If we ever do
a movie again, let's have a scene where you are in French Class.
ARTY: Billy Madison II.

ARTY: Where did you grow up?
BUSCEMI: I was born in Brooklyn, lived there for eight years, and then
we moved to Valley Stream, Long Island. I wrote Trees Lounge about
Valley Stream. Alex is helping me finish it.
ROCKWELL: Yeah, right! (laughing) When you become a director you
start worrying about things like, "Is there a hair on the juke box?"  He
would say to me, "Do you see a number on the jukebox?" And I'd say, "I
don't think that's the important part of the scene. Isn't it the guy
naked in front of it screaming his lungs out?" The ending of Trees
Lounge is so beautiful. What films influenced your film?
BUSCEMI: Fat City, a John Huston flick with Jeff Bridges, Stacy
Keach, and Susan Tyrell. Great bar scenes, great characters. The pacing
is great.
ROCKWELL: It's like in your movie. It's more about just getting to know
these people and live with them, see their broken dreams. Steve plays the
central character who ends up in a bar, whole life coming apart and he's
sitting alone after finding out his girlfriend may or may not be having
his baby....
BUSCEMI: I think he probably accepts that it's not his...don't give away
too much.
ROCKWELL: Was it hard for you to direct your first film?
BUSCEMI: Really hard. I was stressed out the whole time...had like four
weeks to shoot it. How long did we have on In The Soup?
ROCKWELL: Five and half, I think.
BUSCEMI: So I shot it in 24 days...in my home town which turned out to
be okay. I thought I'd have trouble going back there and a lot of stuff
would come up. My character in the film drives an ice cream truck which I
used to do when I was 19...probably at my lowest point of not knowing what
I was going to do with my life. I quit community college and drove an ice
cream truck for two seasons. The first season it was like, "Hey look,
Steve's driving an ice cream truck, that's pretty funny." The second
season, people were like, "Oh my, is this what he's going to do?"
ROCKWELL: "Hey Steve, any new ice cream today?"
BUSCEMI: I'm taking acting classes and telling people that driving the
truck is paying for them. I could tell they were looking at me, thinking,
"This guy's really delusional! Alright Steve, you're gonna be an actor. 
Got a fudge bar? Got any more circus suprises left?" I'm back in the
same neighborhood where I drove the truck, but this time I'm being towed
by a camera truck. I swear to God, my art director found the same truck! 
I'm driving around and people are looking at me going, "There's that
fucking guy again and now he's got a camera with him!"
ROCKWELL: People actually said that?
BUSCEMI: I'd see people and they'd say, "What are you doing back here
with the ice cream truck? Why are they filming you now?"

ROCKWELL: With all the different directors you've worked with, do you
feel you picked up things from them for when you made your film or did you
forget everything?
BUSCEMI: Sometimes it kinda all goes out the window. I feel I've had
the best film school with the people I have worked with. But some days,
you're standing on your heels, so dpeleted and the DP is asking me where I
want the camera and the AD is like, "Okay Steve, what's going on, what do
you want?" and I'm like, "I have no fucking idea!" You really helped
because In The Soup was the first film I was involved in, from the
very start to the very end. Before the script was written we talked, as
the thing was being written you showed me every draft, while we were
shooting we constantly talked about the story and the character, and thend
during the editing process you let me in on every stage of that. I was so
close to the film I couldn't see it for what it was. By the time we got
to Sundance, I was sitting next to Jo (his wife) at the screening, saying,
"I can't believe I'm going to watch this again." I'd seen it so many
times and though there were some great moments, I didn't think we had a
strong film. That first screening was like seeing a whole new film.
ROCKWELL: I was blown away.
BUSCEMI: Me too. It was really helpful for me to remember that now
because I am at that stage with Trees Lounge where when I see it, I
say, "What the fuck is this?"
ROCKWELL: Like that scene with you and Seymour that I said you should
just write, so you wrote this incredible story about how the angel comes
and she's the angel of death and Joe's (Seymour) yawning....
BUSCEMI: I asked you that day when are we going to do that scene where
Adolfo (Steve) shows Joe (Seymour) his short film and you said, "Why don't
you go out and do that?" I was like, "What?"
ROCKWELL: It was great...it was making him a director and Steve really
gave a shit about it. Fifteen minute movie, right? I had to cut a lot of
it out...only time Steve got bummed out.
BUSCEMI: I put my blood, sweat, and tears into that. I got my father,
my brother, my son in the movie. I will say, Alex managed to get in all
the shots that were really important to me.
ROCKWELL: I did the MTV cut.
BUSCEMI: I don't know how you did it. My wife, who's a filmmaker,
really saved my ass, showed me how to edit, she shot the film. Jo Andres.
ROCKWELL: His wife's a man. He doesn't like to talk about it. His wife
is Joe Piscopo. He also did stand-up way back.
BUSCEMI: We had Alex come over. I remember him going, "Yeah, it's a
little long."
ROCKWELL: You were so excited. At that moment, I knew you wanted to be
a director. I thought it was going to be this little throw away thing. 
That's what I love about Steve...doesn't take anything light weight. When
we did Somebody to Love, he got so into going out and buying a
dress and shoes 'cause he was playing a woman. He'd get miffed because it
would take so long to get ready. I'd open the door and he'd be pulling
his hose up and in a cranky mood, "I'm coming! I just want to make my
hose right!"
BUSCEMI: I got really competitive with the other girls. All these girls
looked hot and I thought I had to look hot too.
ROCKWELL: You had a nicer ass than Rosie. He has a hell of an ass. I
mean...in a dress...a little support helps.
BUSCEMI: Rosie Perez is amazing in the movie.
ROCKWELL: Harvey Keitel is good too (Movie sat in the can for a while,
but is now coming out). There is this weird sort of viciousness in this
town...in some ways it likes to discover the new hot whatever and get
excited about it but there is also a secret thing where they like to shoot
down the new hot thing as-well. Cause Somebody to Love is all what
In The Soup is. Sam Fuller says in the movie, "In the old days, we
used to make films in Hollywood on a hunch and they got into it and really
gave a shit about it, but now, it's all about numbers and being scared you
are going to lose your job." It's such a money-oriented thing (now) and
the worth of a movie is no longer based on its qualities.
ARTY: How was it working together again?
ROCKWELL: I had another great time.
BUSCEMI: I have to admit that at first I was a bit jealous of all the
attention you were giving Rosie. During In The Soup, I was it.
ROCKWELL: Weird thing about Steve...he's the last guy on a set you worry
about. A lot of actors are like kids...they need your attention all the
time. Steve puts very little demand on a director. I mean, he's so good
that sometimes I would forget to talk to you after a cut during In The
Soup. Seymour's a real wild cracker. After every cut he'd be running
after the make-up girl, so I'd have to be like, "Seymour, stay right
there." So Steve is the guy, he'd be sitting there as I was talking to
the AD after a shot and be like, "Is there anything you want me to....ah,
to do, the same or different?" "That's right Steve, you've got to sing in
this scene. Don't worry you'll do great." He actually sings in Somebody
to Love.
BUSCEMI: I was really nervous about that.

(Director, Rebecca Miller stops by the table.)
ROCKWELL: Hey Rebecca, how's it going?
REBECCA: I'm just here briefly.
ROCKWELL: You're looking very smart with those glasses.
REBECCA: Well, I wear them for driving.
ROCKWELL: Do you know Steve?
REBECCA: No.
BUSCEMI: We met in Sundance, didn't we?
REBECCA: When I see people on screen, I run up to them and think I know
them.
ROCKWELL: How long are you here for?
REBECCA: 'Til Friday.
ROCKWELL: How's it going?
REBECCA: It's going great. I'm in New York now.
ROCKWELL: I'd love to talk to you before you go back.
REBECCA: Yeah, call me. How long are you here for?
ROCKWELL: Until Monday.
REBECCA: Call me. Bye, bye.
ROCKWELL: Bye.
BUSCEMI: Bye.
(Rebecca leaves.)
ROCKWELL: Did you see her movie?
BUSCEMI: No...shows you what Sundance is like 'cause I did meet her
there. She doesn't remember me because she probably met like five million
people.
ARTY: Who is that?
ROCKWELL: Rebecca Miller. She directed a movie called Angela.
ARTY: Who was in that movie?
ROCKWELL: I actually don't know.
BUSCEMI: Unknowns.
ARTY: She's kinda beautiful.
ROCKWELL: Yeah, she's actually the playwright, Henry Miller's daughter.
BUSCEMI: You mean Arthur Miller.
ROCKWELL: No, Bob Miller. He also repairs cars.
ARTY: All I've ever seen Arthur in, is his Greek fishing cap.
(Now Arty's neighbor, Mario, stops by the table.)
MARIO: You're not eating?
ARTY: No man, I had a salad. I have to eat light.
MARIO: You wanna look like me?
ARTY: Yeah. I'd love to look like you. I could only be so lucky.
MARIO: Don't tell that to my doctor.
(Mario leaves.)
ARTY: That was my neighbor. It's a small town.

BUSCEMI: There is this one thing that I never understood before I
directed...the feeling that at any moment, the whole thing could fall
apart. I don't think actors realize how fragile the whole damn thing is.
ROCKWELL: It drives me nuts when an actor comes up to me and says, "Will
you just relax, you're always tense. Relax." I'm thinking, "You have no
idea." They're getting paid more than I ever will and I'm like on my way
to lunch, trying to dodge a producer who's coming to ask me how many cans
of film I shot today. "Okay, we're going to meet after dailies and talk
about pulling the plug on this one." And then you have to go direct a
love scene! I think every actor should go through that, just as every
director should have to try standing in front of the camera.
BUSCEMI: Also, I had a little trouble with dealing with the actors,
which surprised me. I was worried about so many other things that I'd
forget to talk to the actors and that is one thing...as an actor that
would be my gripe.
ROCKWELL: When you seen an actor who's freaked out because his hair is
bending this way and inside I'm going, "You little piece of shit two year
old!" But then I'll say, "No it looks all right. You're going to be
great!" That's what I love about Steve...is that in some ways, you can
scream at him and throw a cup of coffee at him and all that stuff.
BUSCEMI: First day of dailies for In The Soup, Alex threw his
coffee at Seymour.
ROCKWELL: I stood up and threw a full cup of coffee at him.
BUSCEMI: Seymour was just saying, "Why didn't you do this?"
ROCKWELL: "Why didn't you hold the scene longer? Where is my close-up.
Why is her's so long. Let's just call the next close-up, 'a Jenny,' okay
Steve." So I threw my coffee at him and called him a selfish son of a
bitch. He brought me flowers the next day.
BUSCEMI: And then like a week later, Seymour had a date that night, and
he wanted to be off at like seven or someting and we were there shooting
at nine. Seymour just wouldn't do this one scene so they had this big
fight in front of the whole crew. I knew that was probably the healthiest
thing that could happen. Everybody else was like, "Oh my God, this is the
end of the movie?"
ROCKWELL: Steve was always caught in the middle of me and Seymour. What
did you feel when we were shooting in that club (in Somebody to
Love) and you were in the dress all the time. Did you enjoy that?
BUSCEMI: The first day was really rough, but the next day I was fine.
ROCKWELL: Pound for pound, probably the best time I've had shooting a
film. It was a rough time because I had a nervous break-down, my personal
life was a fucking mess. You guys: Pauly, Rosie, You, Lizzy, Frank,
Tito...greatest people. We had the best time. I'd love to get the
outtakes from Somebody. Particularly the scene when you dance with
the dove, that was so beautiful.
BUSCEMI: I still had my make-up on but I was wearing jeans and a t-shirt
and my wig is off. It's the end of the night and I'm going home. I have
the pet dove and the music comes on and I do this dance.
ROCKWELL: I was crying. Unbelievable. Everyone's talking about Rosie's
character who has left the club.
BUSCEMI: She's like my best friend. I'm sad.
ROCKWELL: Everyone leaves and Steve wants to hang out by himself. He
gets up from the bar and starts dancing with the dove. All the lights
went off and the only light that was on, was the one in the
middle...really fucking beautiful.
BUSCEMI: Never made it into the movie. In fact, I might use it in the
ending of Trees Lounge. We have the same character so I thought, 
"Why not use it?"
ARTY: In the Soup wasn't your first film, was it?
BUSCEMI: No, I did Mystery Train, the Jim Jarmusch film and
Parting Glances a film by Bill Sherwood where I play a musician
with AIDS.
ROCKWELL: It was a really good film. Really the first film that dealt
with AIDS. When was that?
BUSCEMI: We shot that in '84 and it came out in '86.
ARTY: Alex, I didn't realize you had done films before In the
Soup.
ROCKWELL: Yeah Sons.
ARTY: That on video?
ROCKWELL: Actually that was another movie with producer problems.
ARTY: You had mentioned William Forsythe earlier. Is he in that?
ROCKWELL: Yeah, he's fucking great in it. He's the best part of it. He's
a nut but he's great. That's where I met Sam Fuller, who is in 
Somebody to Love also. We became really good friends.
ARTY: I really like him. What's Rockets up to these days?
BUSCEMI: He was in my film. He's back in NY. He has a bad leg and it
was acting up the last time I talked to him. He's okay.
ROCKWELL: He's one of those guys that just can't handle the biz. He's
such a weird sort of artist character that he can't handle it; head shot,
going to meetings. He comes here to get jobs and winds up walking to his
meetings and taking public transportation. Steve and I think he should
have a talk show where the camera follows him around...he's the couch and
the man and the band and the Ed McMahon character. You walk to get
cigarettes with him because he knows everyone. Tells you the greatest
stories. He's got the biggest heart. I love Rockets.

ROCKWELL: I take responsibility for your performance in Reservoir
Dogs, I just wanted you to know.
BUSCEMI: Why?
ROCKWELL: Because when we did In the Soup I remember that Steve
was such a nice guy and he never got to do any action stuff. He would say
to me, "These great guys like Wil Patton and Rocket coming in doing scenes
with me and I'm just the nice guy."
BUSCEMI: Yeah, the straight guy. And I used to be a stand-up.
ROCKWELL: You went out right after Sundance.
BUSCEMI: To do the workshop with Quentin.
ROCKWELL: He went, "In this new movie you get to shoot people and
scream."
BUSCEMI: Actually Seymour and I auditioned for that movie together.
Isn't that weird?
ARTY: What did he read for?
BUSCEMI: He read for Lawrence Tierney's part. And I read for nice guy
Eddie, we would have been father and son again.
ROCKWELL: Quentin wanted to be Mr. Pink, right?
BUSCEMI: Yeah. If he made that movie today he would be Mr. Pink.
ROCKWELL: He might have even been all of the guys. I don't want
to say anything mean about Quentin 'cause he is my friend, but then every
time I do an interview, I go, "I didn't say that, did I?"
ARTY: That's literally a pull quote.
BUSCEMI: It will be under your picture.
ROCKWELL: Yeah. "He wanted to play every part!' says Alex
Rockwell...and his number is...for those of you who like Quentin
Tarantino, here is his number."
BUSCEMI: I introduced you and Quentin at Sundance. A lot of people
don't realize that Res Dogs was at Sundance the same year In the
Soup was. It got attention, but people were afraid of it and people
were walking out.
ROCKWELL: Yeah, people were afraid. He had a bad projection. I think
Quentin is right, you go see any Hollywood movie like Seven and
there is so much gratuitous violence but Quentin always has some reason
for it. He says it's just another color on his palette. I find his films
much less distrubing than the average Hollywood film.

ARTY: It seems the film community is a lot tighter in NYC.
ROCKWELL: For me, one of the problems with actors and directors getting
together here in LA, are the agents and the biz...really competitive, like
we're all at the starting line and they say "Go!" and we start running.
In NYC, it never gets in the way. I'll meet Steve at a bar and we'll talk
about other things like kids or vacations or whatever. We have friends
and we all just hang out...all the financers and critics and stuff are
outside, like they're aliens who are outside and not invited. In LA, you
can't have a party without the agents showing up.
BUSCEMI: It's tighter in NYC, yeah. But it's expensive to shoot in NYC.
It used to be that I could make a living just being cast in films in
NYC...but now, it's like either, super huge budget stuff or super small
budgets. And the people who do the super low stuff just wind up creating
the community. People are more willing to help each other out.
ROCKWELL: I get calls from first time directors in NYC who ask me about
where I got my cameras and stuff and I like that. For me, if I know
someone who has given money to low budget films, I have no problem giving
them some people to call, where out here...there are only so many chairs
and it's like when the music stops, everyone is scrambling for a chair.
Like SoundOne is a place where everyone does their sound work (in NYC) and
you bump into everybody in the halls and show them parts of your movie.
Like Steve asked me to come over and look at the end of his movie and a
lot of people would not have done that. So I ask if he has any cigarettes,
and then I go over and smoke cigarettes and watch his movie. There's no
ego involved and I can really tell him what I think. It's a nice feeling.
I really like that.
ARTY: When you were getting Trees Lounge together did you get
that together in NY?
BUSCEMI: It took me like 5 years. I actually had that script written
before In the Soup, but I'm glad I waited. I tried to get that
done in NY but we finally got financing out here. Live Entertainment did
it. They let me make the film I wanted to make. I made it on a really
low budget and in a short amount of time, but they were really good. I
think part of the problem was that I was in it, and wanted to direct it,
and the second lead was played by Mark.
ROCKWELL: Didn't you tell them it was Daniel Boone's grandson or
something?
ROCKWELL: I used to say that Marlon Brando was my father for a while to
get invited to parties.
BUSCEMI: Weren't you in jail for some time, Christian?
ROCKWELL: Wasn't me, man. Another thing about NYC actors like Steve or
Stanley Tucci, they just want to make movies. They do it right with a low
budget and friends. People out here get a bit of success and get on this
power thing where if they're not offered Braveheart or Dances
With Wolves, they won't direct. Steve's done big movies but he loves
to do an independent film. I really believe that's where real film making
happens: under a million dollars or maybe two. After that it becomes a
producer's film. What are you going to do? Take 20 million dollars and
make a director/actor film?  You can't really. John Cassavettes is really
the only guy who did that out here. His movies were big but controlled by
creative people. It's just about making a good film and so many people in
LA want a huge budget, the best DP, and want to make this huge action
film.
BUSCEMI: Yeah, Cassavettes was a big influence on me. When I started
writing Trees Lounge, I took this three day intensive screen
writing work shop and the guy who ran the workshop was just like teaching
formula and I think he spent about five minutes of the weekend talking
about Taxi Driver. I remember he advised us against making a film
like Taxi Driver or all these other '70s movies I love. Then they
were having a Cassavettes retrospect at the Museum of Modern Art and for
ten days I saw all of his films. After that I started writing. When you
watch his films....
ROCKWELL: ...it's guided by something else. Reminds me of something my
grandfather used to tell me, "A work of art can't be judged as a piece of
industry." Like making a car: "Are the brakes okay? Does the steering
work?" Out here (LA), it's like, "Is the love scene there?" Okay, that's
the brakes; "Is the action scene there?" Okay, that's the wheels; and it
has to have balance and be able to drive a certain amount of miles but in
the end...art can't be judged by that stuff but by its presence of
qualities. The great films are fucked up, like Breathless
(Goddard) and some of Fellini's earlier stuff...but something rises up
from them because they're going for broke and when you miss...it's big and
when you hit...it's big. Like the ending of Steve's movie, that does more
than ten bullshit movies do for me, any day. It leaves me with so much
and then I leave with something, even though it might lack the technical
brilliance or an untied end or bad cross or something. It's like a great
black and white photo on grainy stock - they are the most beautiful
photos. A color glossy of a model doesn't do shit for me. There is no
humanity in it. In the end, that's why films and money are a bad marriage
because a film is only good if it has something human going on in it. 
Otherwise, you paid seven bucks for a joy ride on a-merry-go-round; that
can be fun but that's all it is.
ART: I go matinee. So Sombody to Love will be out in April
right?
ROCKWELL: Like May, it's going to be great. Rosie's great in it. There's
a scene when Steve is teaching her a song, half dressed as a woman, in the
make-up room and it's just killer...she sings like Billy Holliday, it's
great. I love that.
ARTY: And Trees Lounge will be out about that time?
BUSCEMI: No. That will be out in the fall. Maybe some festivals, but
it will be small.
ARTY: With indie film, the danger might be, is that it's becoming the
audition for the development deal. Just small scale studio stuff.
BUSCEMI: That's the thing. Then you get the worst of both worlds. Most
indie producers won't fund you unless you have a name in it or the story
goes a certain way. If that's the case then, why wouldn't I just go make
a big studio project?
ROCKWELL: Exactly. After Sundance I had all these meetings with studio
heads and was getting fat and eating all these nice meals and I would see
their faces, "This fucking guy just wants to make indies? He doesn't want
to do studio stuff?" Then the car phone would conveniently ring and
they'd go, "Okay, well, give me a call when you want to do studio stuff
cause you are really talented." Now I sit there and the financers ask,
"Who do you see in the part?" And it's literally about two elephant's
fucking! "What about Robert DeNiro and Meryl Streep? We love him a lot. 
Let's get DeNiro and Pacino to fuck." You sit there and they have this
list and they have numbers next to the names like, "Buscemi and Roth, you
get a million and a half, if you get Buscemi and DeNiro you get this
much." They just go down the list and after a little while you start to
wonder why you are talking to these people. I mean, they are already
talking about how you are going to sell this film before I make it. What
am I, some ring leader or something?
ARTY: You can't get arrested in this town without Stoltz attached to
your project.
ROCKWELL: Exactly.
BUSCEMI: Gimme Stoltz!